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FIFE 0.4.0 has been released on 15th of January, 2017!

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Author Topic: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders  (Read 10036 times)

LinuxDonald

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Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« on: February 03, 2009, 11:23:59 am »

Hello at the 01.03.2009 at 20 GMT TimeZone i would like hold a coder meeting with the coders from Fife, OpenAnno and Zero-Project to find out what we must change/add in the future to the engine. Create an ToDo for the next Versions and so on.

Please say here if you have time for the meeting please

(Sorry for my English) (I hope barra will read this and fix the English bugs :) )
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mvBarracuda

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 01:02:50 pm »

Heya LinuxDonald, that would mean 21:00 German time? One addition to the posting itself: of course everyone else who's interested in the future of FIFE is invited to take part in the meeting as well.
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LinuxDonald

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 06:56:26 pm »

For German boys its 21:00 :)
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Sleek

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 12:07:07 am »

That would be at 4 am here :S

I can't attend on that time sorry. and the date is 01.03. Is it over already ? Why not have it in the weekend ? I don't mind staying up then.
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mvBarracuda

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 08:46:46 am »

LinuxDonald surely means the 1st of March. Saturday, 28th of Februrary might be a better idea indeed.
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LinuxDonald

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 03:56:11 pm »

Sleek on witch time you can came on on the 28. Feb. /1 March?
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vtchill

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2009, 04:21:42 pm »

I agree with the previous requests to have the meeting on a weekend since I will be at work if it is on a weekday.

I should be able to make it no problem on the weekend.

Its 15:00 (3pm) for U.S. Eastern Time zone.
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mvBarracuda

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2009, 07:53:27 am »

Could you please clarify if the meeting will take at the 28th of February or the 1st of March LinuxDonald?
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LinuxDonald

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2009, 03:35:44 pm »

Okay i will change the date to 28th of February but we must find an new time because sleeks timezone
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Sleek

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2009, 06:27:31 pm »

It's okay as long as it's weekend and I don't have work the next day ( Friday /  Saturday ).
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 09:54:54 pm by Sleek »
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phoku

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2009, 03:56:29 am »

I jotted down 28. Feb. at 21:00 German time. See you there.

-phoku
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Sleek

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2009, 07:11:56 am »

I am going offshore on the 25th. Don't know whether I will have easy access to internet or not by 28th. In any case I'll be checking the logs. These are my concerns that I would like to discuss on :


- Improving the renderer - discuss on a code design that makes it easy for people to write their own rendering path. Discuss our default rendering paths : E.g. Texture atlas will only be used together with OpenGL. Only SDL needs Dirty Rect implementation. SDL doesn't and should not know what vertex array is. The important point is that different rendering paths has a system-wide impact: Texture Atlas needs different image loading mechanism. Dirty Rect needs it's own Quad Tree for collision/overlaph detection.

- Map Editor - Bring up all features that we want in the map editor, and classify into must-haves ( Save as ), nice-to-haves ( a tool to offset instances with varying sensitivity - 0.1, 1.0, 10.0 coord unit with arrow keys ), and others. It would be best if we can get info from Zero and OpenAnno on their mapping workflow to have an idea of all the crucial tasks. Make and review proper mock ups of Map Editor UI, with descriptions of how one would achieve a simple task.


IMHO we should list down in detail what ( features ) we want to include in the project so that we have a target and motivation to continue working . It would also be efficient if we could specify a priority feature to work on for a specific time. Most functionalities depend on another, so there should also be a workflow diagram that shows the bigger picture of FIFE development plan ( I volunteer to maintain this if we agree ). People can still work on what they want, but at least they are aware that some planned things will need to wait.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 07:20:24 am by Sleek »
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vtchill

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2009, 12:19:32 pm »

I agree with Sleek on both suggestions and think the renderer and editor are 2 of the biggest concerns. I hope Sleek can be around in the discussion, maybe we should think about moving it up a bit so he can make it.

Anyhow as long as the renderer is brought up I would like to throw in my 2cents. If the renderer is going to be truly redesigned I would like to bring up that most games today whether 2D or 3D (or somewhere in between) are using a true 3D rendering engine/pipeline and just fixing the camera for a 2D aspect. This can make a lot of complicated issues go away involving tiling, collision, draw order, occlusion/culling, etc. It also adds some flexibility and ease of art asset creation. The creation of 3D models is done once and the pre-rendering can be done before hand to get the desired "look" of the game. Then the model and materials can be loaded and rotated in game to get the aspect needed. This also opens up the engine to allow for some nice visual niceties easily such as lighting effects.

I know this is a huge change from what is currently implemented, and it would have a major impact on the games currently using the engine. I am not trying to force the change, I just figured it was an option to bring up to further the discussions.

I was actually reading a long forum post on this exact topic about a week ago. If anyone is interested here is the link: http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=15714
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shevegen

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2009, 04:07:47 pm »

Woot woot party!!!!!
*dances in the background*
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phoku

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Re: Fife Coder meeting with the OpenAnno and Zero Procjet Coders
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2009, 02:48:20 am »

Sleek, your priority plan would be highly appreciated :-)

Improving the renderer
I'll add that I'm neither convinced that we need texture atlasses nor dirty rectangles.
I'd like to get a cleaner design however and better documented code path. Besides
that in my opinion there's one big design mistake we made in our render backend
abstraction, which hurts a lot.

Currently we have one abstraction of a renderable which doubles as a canvas/image to modify
the pixels directly. A better abstraction is to have two kind of objects "images" (or bitmaps or whatever) and "textures".

Textures are things to actually render/blit, while images are real 2d images, which can be manipulated. Even in SDL this distinction makes sense as either hardware surfaces would be nice to have.

I actually implemented this stuff in a mock engine I wrote and it made more sense to me.

3D Rendering

Quote
I know this is a huge change from what is currently implemented, and it would have a major impact on the games currently using the engine. I am not trying to force the change, I just figured it was an option to bring up to further the discussions.

I'd like to point out, that this would be a new engine, say FIFE3D, instead of an improved FIFE. Needless to say, I am opposed to that idea :-)

Map editor
...all points seconded :-)

FOV / LOS
I recently did a bit of source diving in the roguelike scene and now have a bit
of an overview how to calculate field of view - to avoid psychic guards.

Could the Zero guys comment on what they need in regards of visibility?
I don't want to go and implement something unusable

There are some issues, for example the PARPG guys discussed using a hex layer
for moving and iso tiles for placing objects if I understood that right.

That raises the question when exactly is a hex/tile considered transparent or opaque.

Regarding more complex calculations including partial obstruction or/and asymmetric field
of view (and which algorithm exactly to use) will be deferred after a first working implementation.

Misc.
I guess there are still other features lacking :/


-phoku
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